The four biggest mistakes that people make in storytelling and what are the step by step framework to master your storytelling.
George: So I’m really excited about today’s episode, but I’m going to tell you something. I hate the awkward pause when I record these episodes, cause me silence for 10 seconds on the front of this is the most uncomfortable thing I’ve ever done in my life. Cause I really just like talking. So you guys you’re in producing today.
We are going to be talking about the power of storytelling, in general storytelling. And really it’s probably one of the most under utilized topics that I see see in the world of business, entrepreneurship or life, since we’re humans, we emote and we relate with stories.
Story creates credibility. Story creates bridges, stories, allow us windows into like real authentic feelings and exploration of what those things are. And so today we have our dear friend Eliya and she is going to be talking about story, the power of storytelling and a lot of things but before we get into the power of story and typical George fashion, I’m going to ask Eliya a question to kick off. I’m not even gonna let her talk about herself. Here we go. So, Ellia, what is the biggest mistake that you have ever made in business and what did you learn?
Eliya; Oh, I love that question. The biggest mistake that I ever made in business was hands down, not taking control and putting my faith into somebody else’s hands, hands down. That was the biggest mistake. And I just learned that I can only. Be in control of what I do and not somebody else does. And that in order to live the life that I want to live, I’m going to have to do it myself.
George: I love that. That’s the first time I’ve gotten that answer. And actually one of my buddies roam posted the other day, he posted a picture and he said, nobody’s coming to save you. You have to save yourself. And I think, I actually think that’s a lesson. I think I’ve probably learned that lesson. I’ve experienced that lesson. Hundreds of times. I’ve learned it once but I experienced the law in a law and a lot, and I feel like I just broke through a big plateau with that one.
What was it that helped you learn that? Like, how did it affect you? Like how do you notice it? How do you keep your kind of like spidey senses up to make sure that it doesn’t happen again?
Eliya: Yeah, so I, Worked for other people for a long time. And I was always the kind of employee. Like I put everything into the businesses that I built with other people. And actually, funnily enough, when I had both my children, I was supporting my family. I was the driven career kind of person and both times that I had my kids like this the same week that I had my kids, the businesses that I was a part of collapsed. And the second time it happened to me, I was, I remember specifically being on the couch with my husband. Absolutely. In tears. Like not only what are we going to do, but why is this happening again? And my husband looked at me and he was like, this is happening because you won’t do it yourself. And that was the moment for me that I was like,Okay, thanks for the tough love honey, but like totally right, totally right.
And so that’s why, you know, we make the choice to be entrepreneurs in it and we make the choice to kind of go through the struggles of it. But I will never put that back in somebody else’s power again, where I spend my time putting so much of my heart into it, but then the outer circumstances are not in my control.
George: I’ve had plenty of those moments. My, my wife is an absolute angel. And sometimes it feels like the devil with how sharp it lands and how good it is, which means I know it’s just pure wisdom and divine love coming through me. Right. Like being the messenger. And then what I do want to say too. And think this is important too. It’s not, it doesn’t mean that you should, should never work for anybody either. I think more of it, it’s more so about like alignment and congruency than it is about like either being an entrepreneur or not an entrepreneur, right? Like it’s about yeah. A hundred percent responsible. Right? Cause like I remember I’ve actually worked for people and I’ve loved it. Like I felt more taken care of that, doing it myself, but you got to make sure that all the cards are on the table. Right. Expectations are handled. Communication is clear, cause you get expectation hangover and things like that. So that’s a, that’s a, I feel like that’s a life lesson, a business lesson and a lesson that requires intentionality and practice every single day to kind of check in, to see, to see where we are.
Eliya: And I think, yeah, and I think it was really like, along those lines, it wasn’t even so much that. I needed to be an entrepreneur. It was that I needed to trust myself.
George: And I think that’s the big takeaway. These are lessons that I’ve learned, right? Like we’re in the craziness of the world right now. And whether you’re listening to this in 2020 or 2024, it could be crazy again. I think there’s always been craziness, but I think It’s easy. I don’t know about you, but I feel like there’s times where it’s easy to fall into the comfort of things working, right? Like, Oh, it’s going to handle itself or that deal’s going to close itself for that customer is going to get the results themselves or that client’s going to pay on time by themselves. They’re going to sign the contract on time. And there’s almost like this. We want it to be that way, but it kind of advocates our responsibility. And then we don’t like the bed that we built and it’s not that comfortable to sleep in.
I actually think that’s a good segway to what we’re going to talk about today. But before we do that everybody knows that I always make everybody drop the best of the best of the best on the episodes. And so at the end of the episode, I know what you’re going to be sharing with people, but it’s probably one of the most powerful tools and frameworks that anybody can have in their business or life. And so can you tell everybody what you’re going to be sharing with them at the end of the episode so they can listen, take notes and put it into practice immediately.
Eliya: So in the most simplest terms, I’m going to give you my three part framework that I use to create stories. It takes away all the complication of storytelling and helps you to see the world in storytelling lenses, and then being able to capture those stories that you see around you, and actually put them into some kind of content for your business or into your marketing. And so it’s just a really, really simple, extremely powerful three part framework.
George: So now, like when we think about story, right? Like when I think about story, like it’s really easy to hear the word story and like, Oh yeah. It’s like something you say but I know that there’s a lot of levels that come into story. and one of them is, you know, I, I heard this device a long time ago when it comes to book writing. Like you can’t write a book that you’re in the middle of, you can’t tell a story that you’re in the middle of, you have to be on the other side of it. Right. And so how did you discover, like first, how did you discover the power of story? And then second, how did you realize that when you learned that ability that it could be beneficial and really kind of help catapult. Cause I think there’s, it’s a story where like, people are listening to this. I listen to this, right. And like you’ve actually documented wrote my story for me, which is going to be on your website by the way.
I’m actually, for everybody wondering where to find Elio, make this really easy. If she has like the best domain ever. heyeliya.com and she’s actually going to have up there, my story that she extracted using that framework for me, but I think there’s two parts of it. I think there’s a lot of people that listen to this entrepreneurs, business owners, anything that have a story in them.
But you have this, like, how do I know if it’s a story? How do I know it’s worth sharing? Do I use it? Do I need it? Or you already know what it is and you kind of don’t share it and have it out there. You suppress your voice. So can you just kind of like, give me the background of like your experience? Like, how did you fall into story? Where did story become so powerful for you read edited, you use like, realize it was a tool that you could utilize. Like, it’s kind of an interesting concept, right? Like you would like are a storyteller. And so you got here somehow. Like you weren’t born that way. So I’d love to hear about it.
Eliya: And it’s so funny that you say fall into it. Cause I totally a hundred percent. I literally fell into it. I had a friend of mine who was like, Hey, do you want to, you know, work with me and write some stories and build this kind of company. And it was happened to be in horse racingand I was like, I love horses. I grew up in horses. It’s what I’d done my whole life. I was like, yeah, sure. Thinking to myself, like, ah, yeah, I’ll just put something together. Not knowing that I was a storyteller at all. I wrote the first story that I wrote for that company went nuts. It went banana, it broke all the records for downloads on their websites and hits on their social media. I mean, it just like broke everything. And I was like, wow, I think I might be kind of good at best. And it really came out of that.
That turned into building a community of people really based on exceptional storytelling. So how can we get someone closer to the thing that they love or desire the most in the world through telling stories that take them thereand so we did that. We told stories that created community and that kind of. Helped me segue into seeing how the power of it in marketing, that it builds community and it builds, it brings people closer to the thing that they want the most, because you can tell the story that helps them see that, and that helps them take, take there, take them there. and so that’s really how it like. Started for me was I had no idea I was any good at it.
George: Did you already, were you already like writing or quote unquote copywriting or, or how did the whole thing came about? They’re like, Hey, we’re, we’re going to launch this business. Or we have this company it’s about horse racing and we want to document the journey. We want to tell stories. Hey Eliya you’ve never written before. We don’t know if you can do this. Can you do this?
Eliya: Literally it was through a connection that I had made and we had kind of joked about it in the past. There was somebody else that had done it in the same field. And I, we were joking about sort of like I could do that. Sure. I could do that. It’s a storytelling. It kind of came out of that. I was like, it’s just kinda telling stories, but then when I did it, I got smacked in the face with like, no, this is very powerful stuff.
George: And I actually want to ask you about that. Like that’s, I’ve had a lot of that. I think entrepreneurs people in life in general, oneof the gifts is that we get to try a lot of things. And then something like for us, it resonates with us and it’s like, Hey, this doesn’t feel like work. This feels like flow. Like this doesn’t feel like something I have to do. Like I’m excited. But I don’t imagine that, like, you can came into this and like you wrote your first store and you were like a Pulitzer prize winner. Right? Like you get. Into this, where like it worked and it worked right. And then you had to kind of start looking at it from a different lens. You had to go through probably a process of like, wait, is this me? Is this what I’m doing? Is this like, how I’m going to shift? Like,howitdid it feel for you? Cause like I remember like the first time I wrote a book or I launched an app or I had a conversion, you know I can do this.and for me. Once the result came, I was like, wait, I have to do this now. Wait, what is this that I’m doing? Like, was that luck? Was it they’re like, did you experience any of that? Like, I call it like the success guilt that comes with the success reflection.You’re like, Oh, wait, it worked. Why did this work? What was it like, what was that like for you?
Eliya: Well that was a long process for me because storytelling, wasn’t something that I came into in like an analytical way. It was like very natural. And then it was working and it was converting. And then I got into the copywriting side of things and using the same tactics and seeing that that was working.
And then I had to kind of backtrack and be like, okay, but like, why is this working? I had no idea. And the, the creating the framework was probably the most difficult thing for me to get to because storytelling is such an abstract concept and people love to complicate it like crazy and it just worked for me. So yeah, I totally had that of like, I don’t know what I like, and I don’t know how I can help other people do this. And I knew that the power of it, like I had experienced how incredible it was so many times and the communities that we created and all the results that we were getting. But more than that, the people that would send me messages, being like, Oh, I read this article that you wrote, or I read this piece that you wrote. And like I cried or I laughed or it reminded me of something else, or we just come out and like openly share with me their own stories. So I knew the power of it, but I was like, how the heck am I going to translate this into something that’s tangible? So there was a ton of, of like, Yeah, maybe I’m good at it, but like, I can’t help anybody else this way.
George: So like, there’s almost like this acceptance, right? Like, you’re like, okay, like I did this, I said, I would do this, I hear it. Now I have to own this like I have to own this. So let me ask you this. What were you doing before you wrote stories for this company?
Eliya: I was working with my family. We were raising racing greyhounds. That’s what we did. Yeah, we raised so like totally. So in the animal world, cause I hadn’t been in the animal world my whole life from the time I was 14 as a business, I was doing animal stuff, but we had a Greyhound kennel, incredible state of the art kennel and raised puppies from the ground up in the number one, like. Care first love first, everything. And I was doing that totally different.
George: So you where telling me is you were born into entrepreneurship and copywriting and storytelling, right? Like you were just born, you were born into it right now. I actually think that’s an important part. Like I think that’s really interesting and definitely warranted to like pay attention to the where, you know, like what it sounds like is that you said yes to an opportunity you believed in yourself and that opportunity. And you’re like, you know what, like. It’s not a big deal. I’m going to do it, knowing that you’d be tenacious or disciplined enough or intentional enough to figure it out. And then you obviously got to a point where you were like, okay, I’m going to write stories now. And then you have to start making some decisions. So did you write stories for this company while still raising greyhounds? Or like what, what was that like for you?
Eliya: Yeah, actually what happened was we were raising greyhounds, my family and I had my son in October and in November we had a really horrific incident happened in the family. And I had everybody around me disappear.
I live next door to my, my family and they had to leave for their own safety. And I was a brand new mother and had all my entire support system, besides my husband, they left and I literally, it came out of necessity. It was like, I got to do something and it just, you know, it was amazing because I was good at it and it supported our family ended up supporting our family. But, the transition wasn’t something that I made on purpose. It was purely out of necessity and it just was the thing that I continued to fall back on. Every time that I pivoted my business, every time that I. Wanted to try something different every time that I had to kind of change or adapt, I couldn’t get away from storytelling.
George: Isn’t it funny how our paths always kind of find us and they smack us in the face until we accept that. I was actually getting interviewed on a podcast this morning,dom’s podcast. And I was like, I’m not like most people, like somebody gets hit in the face with a two by four and they learn their lesson. Like I’m like, no, I still have 16 teeth left. Hit me a few more times, right?
Eliya: That’s totally the way it was because, so I worked for this company and we did incredible things and literally the same week I had my daughter. So I’m again, I was literally in the hospital with my daughter and that company fell apart. And here I was, again, right here. I was literally, again, A few years later now, but once again, like the whole, the rug had been pulled out and it was like, now I really have to fall back on what I know and trust and love and can do and it’s happening again right now.
George: So I want to rip the rug out of this one. So I’ve been through this. I go, I go through this all the time. And for those of you like listening, so two funny things, number one, Eliya, and I know each other, we work together. She helps me pull up my story. So we share tears a lot and growth and things like that and then number two is if you’re watching the video of this, you just met my wife through the shutters behind me because. she was yelling at the landscaper to turn it down because they decided to come we’d whack outside my window while recording a podcast. So apparently I need to put two, not disturb signs or in the studio recording on my lawn as well. And what’s really funny is I just had this realization, why do I have landscapers? We have artificial turf. I would actually wonder what they would do. I think they’re just getting rid of weeds pretty funny.
So the reason I want to ask this as, as I think it’s really prevalent. So as I hear you talk about this Eliya. And this whole podcast gets to be a story to be congruent, but I know that there’s a part of things that come up for me. And I’m just going to venture out on a limb here and make a pretty aggressive statement that, once that story took off, you probably had thoughts of like, Oh, it was lock or, Oh, it wasn’t me and you basically advocated your ownership of it and gave other people credit and kind of refuse to own it.
Eliya: And you know me well enough to know that that is my thing. Always, always is my thing.
George: I have a question before I even let you get into this because I do want to explore this. I think it’s a really important topic and it’s actually, in my opinion, probably one of the, the required pillars in an accurate story is understanding all of the parts of the motivators underneath it. Even if you share it with different wrapping paper. One of those other questions that I haven’t asked anybody. So even if you’ve listened to the podcast earlier, you’re not going to know what does that cost you in your life, in business not owning your sovereignty or your greatness.
Eliya: So it’s a double edged sword. It’s cost me a lot of time struggle, but on the flip side, I had to hit those bottom points because I’m a huge believer that you cannot know the top. If you don’t know the bottom, right? You can not know one, if you don’t know the other. So it’s cost me years of not telling stories of not helping other people tell their stories of not, creating my own security for myself and my family. So the cost is super high.
George: You can know the top without standing in the bottom. You just have to see the bottom. Like don’t you don’t, you know, there’s lava down there. You don’t have to jump in the volcano to figure it out. Like I just wannathink. The reason I’m asking this is because one of the critical parts for me, for everybody listening about story, about emotion, about humans, moving people forward, like you said, it earlier, like the power of stories, helping somebody move one step closer to them, our goals, or to their vision or to that dream life. But I think Eliya, one of the parts that most people don’t collect about story is sharing the raw, authentic, deep down feelings and consequences that. Have allowed that to come out. And so when I think about this, like you wrote this massive story, went nuts about horse racing, you know. Can’t tell my wife cause we have lots of horses and that’s we come surrounded by horses. And then you had to go through like a growth process as a human, as a mother, as a wife, as the bread, as a breadwinner, you know, moneymaker as an entrepreneur, as a weight, this is what I’m really doing. And I ventured that wasn’t an overnight process. So can you walk me through like what that was like?
Eliya : Oh my gosh. I mean, it was. Everything from the struggles daily of I’m not enough. I cannot do this. I will never be able to do this. What will people think all the way to, I suffered massively with postpartum anxiety and depression with my son. I mean, horrifically and so that all came into it. It was all of the failures of trying and trying and trying to write for different people and do different things and have it failed so many times. The beauty about stories is that your life is not. Just, it does not have to be just one, there’s so many stories. And when I talk about storytelling, I often talk about like, every story has a lesson.
The whole point of storytelling is you’re trying to get someone somewhere or to see something there’s one intention behind it. And that one intention can come from a plethora of events in your life. And that’s what it was for me for sure is it was like, I’m going to have to take the rain, right? I’m going to have to do this for my son self. And that didn’t come from one that came from, you know, crying on the bathroom floor in the throws of postpartum depression and anxiety, not knowing how I’m going to get myself up off the floor. It came from putting in hundreds of applications for things when people trying to lean on the storytelling that I knew I was good at, but other people didn’t see it, or, and I didn’t know how to present it in a powerful way. I mean, it just so much all the ways that I lost. Really, I think all the ways that I lost who I was in the process of all these things.
George: So you could become who you are today. So looking back now, cause I think this is important for everybody to understand. Like it’s something we talk about openly in our mastermind, obviously you and I talk about this a lot, but you know, you’re like, Oh, the failures, the failures, the failures, as you look back now, do you still see them as failures or do you see them as lessons?
Eliya: Oh, no, they’re all lessons.
George: And so now, like if you write a piece now and it doesn’t work, how do you view that now?
Eliya: So now I’m like, all right, let’s try it a different way. That was great. Awesome. Sounds good. Like let’s, let’s navigate those and figure out what maybe didn’t land for it.
George: Cause I think story, right story. Isn’t it. Necessarily pro and I don’t know much about story. I’m just trusting my gut intuition, your guys. I don’t study any of this stuff. I’m just leaning into whatever comes through my divine soul right now. But like for me, I guess I okay. I’ll own that. I just put myself down. I am really good at telling stories. I’m really going to tell them I’m a good storyteller. I am, I’m not good at writing them. I’m going to talking about them. You stick a quarter in me and watch out. I’m actually Eliya did that. She got three hours of it. And but I, I think with stories, stories to be effective, aren’t necessarily always just predicated on how well you tell the story. It’s also predicated on the receiver of the story. The timing of it when they see it, where they are like, cause you can have a story that could get anybody to their promised land, but if they’re not at the start of that path, they can’t get there.
Eliya: That’s a hundred percent. And there’s a number of ways that, you know, that’s happened for me in my life and in my career. And I remember. When I was writing consistently about horseracing, I would write something and I would tell my editor, this is total shit. It’s junk. it’s the worst thing I’ve ever written. So every time I would say that he’d be like, awesome. Great. Thank you. Perfect. And then I’d read something that I was actually confident in. Like, yeah, I liked this one and I love this. This is really great. Tanked every time. And that’s just the humility of being a storyteller.
George: Well, it’s happened to me in a lot of people I work with and I have a theory. I have a hypothesis on this. And I think you just said it in your answer to that too, right? It’s like when you are unattached to the outcome, It skyrockets. And the moment you’re like, Oh, this is my best work. Like this is it. This is it. It’s like kicked in the shins. When I see this all the time, right? Like I know this is probably the I’ve talked in a podcast interview, but we can go back and forth on this all day. I think that’s one of the biggest problems we’ve seen in marketing is that the moment you think your marketing is like effective. And you’re like, Oh, this is it. I nailed it. We’re, we’ve lost track of who it was for.
Eliya: And that’s the kicker because when it comes to storytelling and this is why I’m so passionate about the way that I teach it is because the stories that you tell are not for you, therefore the person hearing them and therefore you need to speak to the human experience. And the moment you think you’ve figured out what it means to be human. That’s the moment you lose the game.
George: I think that’s really important to kind of reiterate again, we talk about this in marketing. We see you have to meet them where they are. We talk about this in storytelling. You have to write the story for where they are, not for where you are. Cause we talked about this beginning. I said, I think in order to write an effective story, you have to be on the other side side of that. The dangerous game is that if you speak from that side, it’s like a different language for people reading it. And so I think it’s actually a good thing when you’re writing copy. When you’re doing a video, when you’re creating content, when you’re sharing anything that you don’t know, you’re like, no, I don’t know how this is going to go. And it probably should feel foreign to you because you’re not there anymore. It should almost feel like you’re regressing a little bit. You’re like, wait, I don’t, I don’t want to be back here at Oh, but, but that’s where people are and that’s the power of stories. That’s where you meet them to then bring them into where you are right now.
Eliya: Yeah, that’s exactly how we utilize storytelling in marketing 150% through the copywriting or the content that someone creates is taking a look at where they are now, and then being able to bridge the gap through to where they want to be, in the future. And that is the story. I mean, that’s 150% is the story. Yeah. And so we have to be able to get into that mindset of like, The unknowingness of what it means to be human and also the beginner’s mind and going back regressing back to being like, what was this like for me when I started that’s tricky.
George: Well, and I think the I’m actually hitting this a lot because like, you’re, you’re sharing it. I don’t know if everybody’s hearing this like foundationally, principally, what you’re sharing is literally you’re talking about how there is no finish line of this game. It’s iterative and iterative There’s so many lessons in that for business, for life, for entrepreneurs, for yourself, right. Like, you know, I think about it right now. Like I’m like a lot of people on the quarantine 20, you know, myself included with like 30 and I’m like, Oh, like I could go try to climb Mount Everest and I’m going to die and it’s not going to help me. But if I walk for 10 minutes, yeah, go by, walk a walk and it’s it’s iterative. And I think one of the things that I’ve struggled with Eliya and I know I’m not the only one. Is sometimes I’m afraid to share a story because it doesn’t encapsulate everything I want to share. I’m like, wait, it’s missing or there’s more, or there’s more.
And so I ended up never sharing it. We’re not posting it. Right. Like, yeah. You know, people say all the time, the best book, the one that’s published. Story I’m assuming is the one that shared. How do you, how do you navigate that? Cause they know I’m not the only one listening, right? Like I want to share my story. Like I still want to do a podcast on my story. I’m probably going to read your posts, to do that podcast because I’m like, well, what if I miss this? So I don’t end up doing it. So how do you navigate that when it comes to the story? Like if somebody is writing a story for themselves or for their company or for their customers or for an ad, or even just to share on stage, like how do you navigate the fact that like, Oh, I’m going to miss parts of it or like. How do you do, how do you deal with that?
Eliya: That is probably the most complicated part of it for people, because you have to get down to the minutia of the one single thing that you want to talk about knowing that storytelling is the tool for communication. It is not the single story that makes the difference. And so it’s understanding that like you are some of your parts, you are some of all the stories that you have to tell and it’s deciding which one do I need to tell right now? And that starts with, by identifying what is it that I need someone to understand in order to enroll in who I am, or the business that I have, or the product or the service or whatever it’s like that it has to start there. Because stories that are told just to flap your gums will never land and won’t do anything.
It has to start before you even begin to tell a story with the purpose and the intention of the story and knowing that there are lots of stories that can be told, but that every story just needs to have the single point that you want to drive home. And then you move to the next story and that one of those points that you want to make. It can come from a number of stories. You can tell it from a number of stories. One point doesn’t have to be lined up. Or one lesson doesn’t have to be lined up with one story and that’s the end of it. You may, right. I always say change the wrapping paper. Like you might tell a whole number of stories that all leave the same point, which is where it becomes super powerful for the business is because if your business has core values or core things that you stand for your job literally to get as many people as you can, to see that and understand that by speaking and talking about it in as many ways as you can. So that it lands with this person in this way and that person in that way. And so it’s getting into the minutia of each individual story and simplifying it that every story needs to have one single point. That is a thread that runs through the whole thing. And just being aware that it’s the endless game and see eternal game.
George: And so would you say that one of the biggest mistakes that people make where storytelling is? They have. Either no focus or too many areas of focus.
Eliya: I would say that the number one mistake that people make is that they do not begin a story within intention. They just think I’m going to tell a story. This thing happened to me and I was going to talk about it, but that serves no purpose. And that’s where storytelling in business in particular gets really muddled. I was literally just saw this and the other day and somebody said posted somewhere. I can’t even remember where it was. And the guy was like sorry, nobody wants to hear your story. And at first I was like, boom, you know, Hey man, are you talking about, this is my business here. How are you doing? But then I listened to, I kind of ran with it. He had to say, and I listened to some of the, some of the comments and he was right. Which is that nobody wants to just hear you talk about how your business got started unless there is purpose and it ties back to something that they need or want. So unless it has a purpose, unless it has an intention. It has no use except for you to get it out there.
George: I want to say like, what we’re talking about is like how to use this in business entrepreneurship. If you have never shared your story and you’re finding your voice, of course, that is for you, that is cathartic and which, by the way, you have to do before, you can effectively use that story for it to be effective. And so a big mistake is writing a story without an intention.
Understanding that. Where the goal here is the goal is that we want to build a house. The story is the tool that we’re going to use and there’s multiple tools to do it. But you can’t pick up a tool and build a house without a plan. So, right. It’s kind of like that. And I think another thing. And, and I’m going to assume this is a mistake. I don’t know, but you’re here to back me up on this. So I think for me another mistake in something I teach a lot, is that the purpose of a story, the purpose of words, the purpose of any of it is not to get somebody to read it. It’s to get them to feel it.
And I feel like when there’s no intention or no path, then it’s just words. And then the other mistake underneath that, Above that or is that you want somebody to feel it? I think the other thing is people try to overcomplicate storytelling. They use too many fluffy words, they drag it out and it’s like, really? And this is just me. I’m making this up. And I, I believe that the effective part of a story would be the minimum viable dose to get somebody to feel something because once they feel it there and then once they’re enrolled anything after that point, it’s just getting in the way of them taking action.
Eliya: And the other mistake that goes along with that is people want other people to feel cause that’s an absolutely one of the crucial parts. That’s one of the pieces of my framework is the emotional piece. But the other part that happens is people are afraid to speak to those deeper emotions. And so they stay super surface level and that is not effective if you’re talking super surface level in terms of you know, I was feeling this way or I even what happens even more so than that is the actions that I was taking, which are happening because of an emotion which are happening because of a court experience sticking to those really surface level emotions is probably one the other really big mistake that people make. They think that that’s enough just talking about the actions that are being driven by the emotions, but you have to get into some of that real raw stuff. That’s what connects
George: Actually like this is kind of like spelling itself out. So mistake number one. That we found cause we’re at three mistakes right now. Mistake number one is that the biggest mistake is writing story or telling story without an intention. Mistake, number two. Is bloated, extraneous story that’s lacking feeling and it’s kind of like surfacing and transactional, but then mistake number three is I would almost call it like skimming over the feeling like not giving it texture. That’s the word that always comes up for me. So I think for me, like, You know, if we go look at our habits right now and like what we consume online. And I, we talk about this a lot, but if you go look at like, what was the last post that you actually clicked on a read? It probably wasn’t because you’re like, Oh, I liked the word that I read. It’s probably because you felt something, right? It reminded you of something, you smelled something, you remembered something, you, it hit a neural pathway. In your brain. . And so I think, and I’m summarizing what you said, giving it depth and texture versus transactions. So you can be like, Oh, you know, when I was angry or you can be like, I woke up depressed, it was challenging to put my feet on the floor. And I felt like it took every ounce of energy in my body to the point where I would collapse just to put my socks on before I went to work today.
Eliya: And what’s so funny about this is that literally as you and I are having this conversation, my storytelling framework is unfolding right now. Like it is like when I deliver this at the end, you’ll be like, Whoa. Yeah. The reason that my storytelling framework is the way that it is, is because storytelling is human to us. But when we try to do it with intention, we fall apart. And it gets super over complicated, but you’re absolutely right because the details in the story are the key vessel for letting someone be dropped into the emotion. And it’s only in doing that, that you can evoke the same emotion in somebody else.
George: For all of you listening. If you haven’t done my captains assessment, they give away for free. You’re fucking dumb. Cause this, this, this covers all of it. Like, and actually it’s something we talk about all the time where most businesses fail because they transact with words right there, transact with words, they don’t invoke feelings. They don’t invoke emotion. I’m getting fucking fired up right now. They don’t invoke the emotions that are, are kind of required. And really it frustrates me because the people that are consuming your stories want to be led. They want to be brought somewhere. But I think the fourth mistake, like the way that I would summarize it is that the stories that I see put people in their heads and not in their bodies.
And so like trust me, I I’m a pattern matcher. Right. I studied NLP. So you use the word, I use it back to you. I use words. I don’t even know what they mean but I was like, I think it fits in the context. People like, yeah, bro. Yeah. And I was like, I used placate earlier and I had to go look up the definition of make sure I was right. And I was like, Oh, I think I’ve ever looked it up. But the truth is, is that, you know, we’ve heard for years. And like call it copywriting, co storytelling, copy, conversion, optimization, whatever. Everyone’s like, Oh, you got to write it in eighth grade level. And everybody thinks that’s bad and wrong, but I think it’s really important to dive into why it’s important.
If you have somebody’s attention like you pattern interrupted them with an image or a video on an ad and you get them to read, they stopped because they felt something. And the moment you speak above their head, where you use a word they don’t know, or a complicated sentence or a run on sentence, and they have to think you’ve lost the entire game because they went from feeling backup to their head. Like, am I talked to me about this Eliya cause I’m about to soapbox. It like crazy.
George: No, you’re going to get me fired up about this because I buck the system all the time and you and I have conversations about this. And I have conversations with your team about this also, which is like, we are not, your marketing is speaking to a human being.
And that human being operates on core human values. And for some reason, and I’m going to try not to get really fired up, but like, this is the big thing for me, for some reason, we think it’s okay to dismiss that in the way we speak through our marketing, your speaking to a human and that human is motivated by emotion and that human is going through a journey. That we can all understand on a very basic human level. Why are we not talking about that in marketing. Marketing become this like very surface level game of like talk about pain points, let’s talk about the problems that someone is having. And I’m like, can we talk about the human for a minute?
And to me, that’s where the storytelling comes in and I’ve done this in my copywriting so much. And, and you know, this cause we’ve worked together is like, Can we get down to some of the core human emotions that people are experiencing, that they are experiencing now, but also that the possibility of what they could be experiencing. And I get super fired up about it because for me, manipulating pain points is not an emotional trigger. It’s manipulation. And so much of the marketing is so surface level. We’ve forgotten about the fact that we are talking to humans and we are all in a human experience.
George: Even the fact that like we forgotten about it, this is probably the biggest way that I doubled triple, quadruple a hundred X companies in a matter of seconds. Cause I take their marketing where they’re like, Oh, you probably feel like this and feel like this, I’m like, why don’t you just say, I feel like shit and I’m struggling with this. And all of a sudden, a hundred people come flooding in, like I’ve been waiting for you to invite me in. Oh, I’ve been waiting for you to create common ground.
Like the thing is, is that when you sit here and like, you nailed it, right? You’re like, Oh, like you’re not doing it right. Or you’re doing email wrong or you’re doing social wrong. What you’re doing is you’re projecting and it’s all surface-y right. They already know that. That’s why they’re consuming your content.
What they’re waiting for is to feel understood or seen. By you being able to identify their feelings, that they can’t put a name to. So they go for peeing or aha. And then this is where you start getting the feedback. How do you know what I was thinking? It’s like, you were in my mind, like, how did you know that I’m like, well, because there’s only really two core fears that you’re born with it like four core emotions and the, and the job is to get them there.
Eliya: Absolutely. And so we waste our time talking about all these surface level things and. Honing in on like how much more can I dig in a pain point? How much more can I throw more at you? How much more can I spend on ads or, you know, change the copy again and it’s like, stop. Like, what is that? Human. Experiencing right. And you nailed it when you were like, they only have so many, you only have so many core emotions you feel as a human.
George: Like, here’s the thing, like, this is what we talk about. Transacting perse transformation. And you guys have heard me say this before. I’m like, if you try to convince somebody to buy you, lose them forever. You opt to enroll them. And what Eliya just said when you’re like, here’s my value stock and here’s my boom. And you’re doing this., All it’s really doing is pushing the person away cause it’s making them feel bad and wrong, which is the fucking opposite of what you want to do. And the moment you stop all that bullshit and you go to like, Hey, you might be feeling overwhelmed cause you’re doing this wrong. You’re doing this wrong and doing this wrong and you don’t have to because it’s here and you put like a deeper texture feeling to it or it’s like, Hey, I know you’re used to being like your email’s wrong. You’re burning yourself up. But none of us give a shit about that. What it is is you’re frustrated because you’re giving your heart and the results aren’t. coming. And now it’s adding evidence to the fact that if you’re like me as an entrepreneur, now you don’t feel like you’re good enough. You want to add more time and energy to your plate.
And now you get burnt out with adrenal fatigue and your business fails,. Those are the things like, I think like the takeaway of this is like, if I can give anybody anything, it’s always to think about like, how is this going to make somebody feel versus think. Even changing the lens in which we look at it to like, Oh, I’m about to write this caption. Is somebody’s going to have to think about this, or is this going to invoke an emotion? Does this, does this make them feel like, is this going to get the spidey sense is going the tingling? And you know, it fits into five buckets. Elliot knows this all day, humor, controversy, education, and credibility and social status, those are the reasons people consume and share. And so, yeah, that’s like a masterclass and the mistakes not do not make those mistakes in your storytelling. You do not. It’s a bad day.
Eliya: I mean, it’s, it’s like all across the board in, in copy and content in all of these things. And I, I teach all the time and, and again, like I go against the grain when I say this and people think that I’m nuts, but it works is that I don’t write to pain points. I write down possibility. So I write to what’s possible and that. Is what we all need as humans is the possibility that the emotion and the way you experience life can be something that it’s not.
George: Well, let me just tell everybody why it’s effective. If somebody is consuming your content, they already fucking know the pain point. Let’s not remind them like this whole thing, like this marketing bullshit I’ve seen for years, like let’s agitate the pain point. I’m like, yeah, nothing like kicking a dog when it’s down. Like, how about like, Hey, I get it. Like, let’s not, but like, this is where you can go. And like, you might be feeling this way. But now that you’re aware of it, you move this forward. Right. So I actually have a question, a different, like, kind of, right. So we talked about actually we hit like four big mistakes people make, what do you think is one of like the most commonly neglected, good parts about telling stories. That’s really just like a two second fix that everybody could do right now. Like if they thought about it this way, or if they included this in every post or if they send this in every story that it would like literally drastically changed the trajectory of their, their business or their storytelling or their customers’ lives.
Eliya: I think we hit on it is, is go for some deeper emotions, stop going surface level, go for some deeper emotions. And this is what I tell people, you know? So we kind of got to this a little bit before, but it’s like, how do you begin? To tell a story. There’s so much fear around people talking about their own personal stories. And I say this all the time, like you have lived the life to have the stories that you have, and you are doing that life a disservice. If you’re not talking about that, it’s the same thing with this simple fix. It’s like you are doing a disservice to the people that you are speaking to. If you are not speaking to those deeper, emotional things that we all feel. And so that’s the thing that I think everybody, if we just went to some of these deeper emotional States of like not surface level, but what’s actually going on underneath the surface, it’s driving us to do some of the things that we do. And including those emotions into the stories, I think we would have a totally different. Landscape of marketing.
George: I’m glad everybody’s done. Cause then people like us get to come in. Right. And we get to love people at heart people and go, we all end up here and everybody listen to us. Like you’re at a massive advantage right now. I think it’s important, like, and we’re not talking about difficulty here, right? Like it’s the difference between being like, giving a, feeling a label and giving it texture.. Like, that’s the way that I see it. Right? Like you can go right. All day. You’re like, Oh yeah, you’re angry. Oh yeah, of course I’m angry or it’s like, Oh, I woke up like just the weight of the world. And I didn’t know if it was sadness or anger and it took everything to put a foot in front of myself. And it’s like, all of a sudden it goes from a word to, well, Holy shit. That’s how I feel. Holy crap. That’s what I do.
And just understanding that if you just give a little like window, it’s almost like you tell a story about the emotion. Or about the feeling as a bigger part of the story. And so I think to sum that answer up, it’s like, as you think about yourself now, as you’re writing captions, as you’re writing stories, every time an adjective comes across your desk, ask yourself, how can I describe the adjective without using the word.
So it’s like, I want to write angry. Okay, cool. How can you say angry without using the word? I want to write sad. How can you show sad without using the word? . And remember, like, we’re talking about story we’re visual creatures usual doesn’t mean that you have to see an image or see a video. It means that it has to invoke a vision. In your brain, right? It has to create that. I love, Oh man, I’m getting excited.
Eliya: That’s absolutely what it is. And so I teach the levels of detail that go into these kinds of things and. And it’s similar in that we talk about emotions on the surface level it’s similar, or when you start injecting detail into story, is that detail like that, like you’re talking about has layers of intricacy, right? And, and so it’s talking about those emotions. Like if you’re going to take anger out of it, if somebody standing 10 feet away from you, how are they seeing that anger, if they’re standing face to face, what does that anger look like? And then side your body? What does that anger. Feel like physically, right? Those are layers of detail.
And it’s about adding the layers so that you bring someone deeper and deeper and deeper into the story that you’re telling by getting them there, showing them that.
George: And I think what’s important is to understand why, like, I’m always about why, why is this so valuable, your utilizing the levels of depth of your story to bring somebody deeper into their own.
Eliya: Absolutely. And that’s why the intention is so important.
George: And the like the win of storytelling is not that you, somebody reads your story and they’re convinced that you’re great. And they’re convinced that you’re the hero it’s at. Somebody reads your story and they get convinced that they can be their own hero. Like it, and nobody can get there when it’s just like, Oh, you’re going to be a rock star. You’re going to be a fitness model. You’re going to be a good entrepreneur. And they’re like, okay, I’ve been telling myself after 35 years, right. It’s like, no, they have to like viscerally feel it. And you have to invoke that in, in everything that you do.
So good. So I have another question. I’m going to talk about story all day. I’m getting fired up right now and I have another question for you. We’ll hit on another one, but like, I think it’s interesting. And for entrepreneurs lesson, we’re gonna have to do a whole episode on how to go from a service based business to consultant and Eliya I’ve had it. That’s actually how Eliya and I met. That was the question you asked.
Eliya: That was the question that I asked is how you make that transition. Yeah, absolutely. And actually to back up from that. The reason that I even got enrolled in the first place was so someone referred me. But the reason that I got enrolled in the very first place was because you were the very first entrepreneur that I ever saw openly speak about emotions.
George: Imagine that, like, I don’t, I don’t shit rainbows and ride unicorns around. Like I’m like, no life is hard sometimes like that. That’s where these moments come from. So before I get into any more story. I have another question for you. Cause I just, I love mixing this in, right? So we know a lot about you. We know a lot about your motherhood, your postpartum anxiety, this transition, what is one thing you’ve been afraid to tell the world that nobody knows about you, that you have to now as I sit here in silence.
Eliya: Oh my goodness. What a question? Ah, you have to be. Selfish in life for the first time in my life. I am being selfish. I am saying and actually you’ve been a huge catalyst on this in a number of ways, of course, but I, for the very first time in my life, I mean, I’ve never said this to anybody yet. Not even my husband. I am a sitting in the rooms. I want to sit in unapologetically. Sitting in the rooms, I’ve been afraid to take up space and just totally unapologetically like I get to be here cause I’ve brought myself to this place and to not taking on other people’s shit. I’m being selfish in that. So I’m the I for the first time in my life, after all the years of motherhood and all the years of service to other people, I am recognizing how important it is to be a little selfish.
George: You’re putting your oxygen mask on first. What does that, what does it feel like?
Eliya: Life is a lot better than sway when you can breathe. Yeah. Life is a lot better when you can breathe. Yeah. So huge.
George: First of all, I’m super proud of you for that. And everybody, everybody listening, that was a lesson that took me 36 years. And I think I figured out the lesson and there’s more between it and out of it and Oh yeah. But here’s the difference. I tell all of you and I use it as the power of story and you guys don’t like this guy’s fucking cuckoo. Like that’s why we named this demise of George show. You have no idea what you’re going to get cause welcome to what it’s like to be my wife. Everything everybody’s said, everybody goes, send Lindsey, gene flowers, chocolates, you know horses. I just don’t want to pay for them. Do whatever you want. So we’re talking about story Eliya and I actually think this is something that I struggled with the most is what story does everybody tell first?
So people right now, right. We’re marketing where we’re designing customer journeys, we’re running ads. We have products, we have all of this and we’re like, Oh, we want the promotion. We want to do this. And I will tell you what is not effective, what is not effective? It’s taking your current marketing and trying to add feelings without personal experience. That’s manipulation, that’s lying. And that’s why it never works. And you can smell it like dog shit from 25 miles away. So. What story does everybody tell first, like if everybody’s listening to this right now and they’re like, God, I get it like, how do they go about figuring out what story to tell first?
Eliya: Tell the story of why you do what you do, the way you do it. So your business stands for something your very existence stands for many things, but some things you hold closer than others. The very first story that you need to be telling is why you do that, the way you do it. Like, why is that important to you? Where did that come from in your life? And the moment that everything changed, that’s the first story that, if people could start telling those stories, we would do less. Pushing our experience on others and more inviting people into our space.
George: I love it. I’m going to go on the other side. I’m gonna go to the risks and side, but yeah, but like, what if people don’t like my story? What if, what if, like, I don’t want to say that part of it, right? Like, I’m going to tell you right now, the most invigorating part about storytelling is going to M and M and eight mile. Like just throwing all the table. Like I do live in a trailer with my mom. Like a lot of you ask me, like, I’m actually wearing a hoodie that says unapologetically authentic right now. find that really unique. And I’m going to share this and I don’t talk about this ever, especially on my own podcast, but it’s time civilized caveman was successful on paper because I was hiding through story.
I used story to protect myself and so you guys are like, Oh, he’s talking about bulemia, he’s talking about sexual abuse. He’s talking about this. But the only stories that ever came out to me were calculated to keep you at a distance. You’ll notice I told the stories with confidence. I told them very clearly. I talked about them very openly and it wasn’t until about a year and a half ago where I learned that you can’t manipulate an authentic story. The story has to come out. But what I was afraid of is that if I didn’t share my story, nobody would like me. Right. Nobody would know me. Nobody would follow me except couldn’t get attention. So I would, you know add fluff, things like that and then when I started telling my story, I’m like, Oh, they can’t know all of it. Because then they’re going to leave me and they’re going to leave me and they’re gonna leave me. And there’s some few tiny moments in my life but here’s what I found now I’m unapologetically my authentic self.
Like, what you hear on this podcast is me, me as the husband, the father, the business owner, the guy who struggles has depression, anxiety, PTSD, and that has moments of joy, rainbows, and I have way more rainbows, unicorns and care bears than I do anything else. So I’m okay with that now. But it really requires a level of self integrity and self honesty before you can even get to the intention of story. Because what I will tell you is the biggest mistake that I ever made is I told stories that weren’t ready to be told. And they had a bigger detriment than they did a positive effect because that was a deep hole. And so, you know, as we talk about this, we think about this, we talk about story, our stories belong in the world, but I would, I would say that if you’re in the middle of a hero’s journey, complete it. You got to remember that the last part of the hero’s journey is you shared the story to help the village, not before you slay the dragon or during this Lang the dragging. So make sure you’re on the other side of the story. And I actually think it’s healthy. To have the fear of like, what are people gonna think about me?
Because that’s how I know no you’re telling the truth. That’s how I know you’re putting it out there and that’s what it is. And so for me, a good tool, and I think you use this a lot too. It’s like, Yeah, I call it the juggler objection, like you just got to go straight for the jugular. Objection. Like our supplement company. Like our creatine pills are literally too big for horses to take. Some of my first email says, these are giant. If you want a refund, we’ll give you your money back. We don’t get any refunds because we call it out for what it is. And so, yeah, for me, would you, would you say that one of the paths to effective storytelling is running to the most fearful part of the story first or including those fearful parts of the story and giving it a voice and giving it light.
Eliya: I don’t think that stories without those are doing the story justice, like you have to go to those that’s right. Like I said before, like you gotta be able to see those things. You got to go right for the juggler and it is this incredible balance of recognizing when a chapter has closed and knowing that now is the time that you can speak to that. And then the other beautiful thing for me is recognizing now, as I’m in the middle of it, of having the lens of, I am currently writing a story. A story is being written around me.
George: And I actually think that’s a really good point to hit, right? Because what, what we talk about here is there’s, there’s really two sides of marketing. The way that I see it, there’s two sides of business to sides of support that you can give people and you just hit the second one we’ve been talking about the first one, the first one is telling the story from the other side, over the bridge. And then building a bridge to help people get there. And then the other side of storytelling is documenting the process of building the bridge and inviting people along with you.
Eliya: And the documentation again requires humility totally right. To be like, I don’t have the answers right now. And that’s, I think that’s so different in how you market. Right is you’re like, I don’t have the answers to this right now, but I’m in the middle of it and I’m figuring it out and here’s, what’s coming up and here are the observations. And so observations can also be stories without being an entire chapter without having a full stop intention behind them. The intention sometimes is just, I’ve had this observation cause I’m in the middle of something.
George: Well, welcome to every sitcom. Every movie. Everything that leaves you with is ironic effect than open loops at the end of it. Like craving more warning more, but also that’s a part of, you almost said humanology smart about being a human I’m like makeup, eye makeup. I need Georgeisms and words. And I don’t like, I’m not like egotistical about it. I just make up words all the time. And I own them with such confidence that people are like, Oh, that’s a word I’m like, I have no idea that just came out. I have no idea that’s such a powerful thing. And I think, you know, no, like really, I can’t think of any moment. I don’t, I don’t know about you.
Like anything that doesn’t require a story, like how we talk to our kids, how we communicate, how we tell our friends how our days were like, everyone’s like, Oh, how was dinner last night? You’re not like good. You’re like, Oh, I had this restaurant and I had this and I think. Elliot, one of the things for me that helped me understand this a lot better. I’ve naturally always been able to tell stories because I used the stories as a survival tool when I was younger to survive abuse and things like that.
But I struggled with it a lot as an adult because I didn’t realize how naturally gifted we are as humans, human beings tell stories 24 seven, but yet I’ve watched entrepreneurs come into this game and they’re like, I can’t writecopy. I can’t write an ad. I can’t be on video. I can’t run a blog post. I can’t tell a story. I can’t read a sales page. And I was like, well, you do it every single day. You tell your kids stories to put them to bed. You tell them stories to get them out the door to school on time, half the time. Right? Like you relate you emote. So like, how do you collapse that bridge? So like somebody who’s listening to this, they’re like, Oh my God, like, this is great it’s script, but I don’t know. I can’t write a story. I’m like, how do you just start to put that into motion? And I think we might as well transition right into like giving everybody that gift of yours. And so why don’t you just. Why don’t you kickstart into that and share with everybody the framework? Well, how to put it into practice, because if you’re listening to this right now, pause this and get a pen piece of paper or listen through it and then come back and listen to it because this is going to blow your mind.
And I want you to use this and I’m going to be harsh right now. If you listen to this and don’t use this, just don’t listen to another episode. Like just don’t like seriously don’t because. One of the things about stories that evolves every day, authors continue to write, to get better entrepreneurs. We continue to learn to grow life. We continue to learn to get better and iterate. This is a tool that will live in your toolbox forever, and there is no spot that you will ever not use this. And I’ve been through this. I’ve taught it with her. I’ve watched it taught this is a gift that people pay lots of money for. So that’s my ultimatum. And I can’t tell this works on the honor system, but if I find out I’ll kick you in the shin. So go ahead.
Eliya: I’ve been on the receiving end of I’m going to kick you in the shins, it works. I love it. So the thing is like you hit on it, so succinctly there is that storytelling is our form of human communication.
It is how we communicate with others. Unfortunately, what’s happened is when it comes to intentionally telling stories, we’ve managed to just conmplicate the shit out of it. Like, I don’t know, we’ve just gone wave the other direction. Of like you can’t tell a good story. You don’t know how to tell a good story. You can’t do this unless you have these exact pieces, which is exactly why I use my framework, which is three simple pieces in it.
So there’s three, three pieces that exist within a story and each of those have three levels to them and so the three pieces are a moment of transformation, a character who goes through a moment of transformation, emotion and detail. All good stories, have those three components in them, and that’s really all. You need to create a great story.
So the moment of transformation means that there is a. Single lesson, or there’s a transformation that a character goes through. And at the other side of that transformation, there is a lesson to be learned out of it or a piece of knowledge to be gained out of it.
And so when you begin to tell stories, you tell what you start with that in mind of like, what is the actual point, a single point that I want to make out of this story. And from there you’re looking at, okay, what was the single moment in my life that. That happened for me, that things shifted. And I learned that, and that requires the most stillness, introspection reflection of the whole process of going back and saying like, where did that happen for me?
What was the single moment that everything shifted? Because there is a life that you were living in a before state, right? As George always talks about there’s a before state that you were in. And then there is a single transformation that occurred, and then there is an after state that you’re in.So at all it all mirrors that in mark the same thing in marketing.
So you’re looking for this single moment of transformation, because an entire story, that’s what it is. It’s life before the moment of transformation, the moment of transformation itself and life after the moment of transformation for that single piece of knowledge that you want to impart on someone else or share.
So that’s the very first thing. And so it’s looking at. What did I struggle with what wasn’t working for me? What was so difficult all the time out? You know, what was the cost of my before this? What was it like? We just talked about the cost. What was the cost of life before this? And then also the after, and then. Coming down to the single pinpoint when that happened. So that’s the first part is that you need to understand the intention. What you’re giving away with the wisdom is out of it. And the single moment that, that comes down to life before that moment in my factor.
And then we get into the emotions of it. And so the, we do not have the right to talk about somebody else’s deep core surface emotions, unless we make our way down into that. And so speaking to emotions is this art of starting with the surface, but then making your way down into the more core emotions of that moment of transfer.
George: It’s a gradual decline. So envision like. Hey, nice to meet you. Hey, you want to get coffee? Oh, you want a date a little while. Oh, you want to get monogamous? Oh, you want to get married right now? It’s this slow. It’s a journey. The story is a journey.
Eliya: So you’re looking at, in that moment when the, when the emotions are coming up, right. We’re looking at what’s happening on the surface, the surface level emotions. We’re looking at what’s happening beneath the surface. And then we’re looking at the very core experiences as a human. So these things that we all struggle with, like fear and worthiness, right? Like, which are like two really core ones that come up.
And so you have to be able to look at emotions in that way. And the key to being able to put those emotions into the story comes in. And the third part of the framework, which is the detail. And detail is what helps somebody else really get drunk into the story that you are telling. And just the way that we work down through levels of emotions, you’re going to work down through levels of detail.
So when you’re thinking about that moment of transformation, and you’re thinking about. Where you were and what’s going on around you and how you’re feeling again, like I said before, you’re looking at, from almost like a 3000 foot view, what did this look like? What were the, what were, what were the colors of things and the way that you could recognize almost something from an airplane, right? Like the way the river bends or the way the mountain comes up or all of these things that you’re able to see from 3000 feet. And then as you work your way down again, it’s like, if you’re standing face to face with something. What does this look like in that level? So these are the things like the textures of things, right?
The really finite detail of the things that are happening the way that things felt like underhand or underfoot, the way they feel in the body. And then the very final level of the detail is being able to go all the way down into how did this feel in my body. So, this is the thing of not just saying, like I was sad and I was crying, but it’s the thing of like, tears are hot and tears have this tendency to sort of sit on the edge of our eyes before they fall. Those are experiences within the body and having those, being able to speak to those experiences of. How the emotions manifest in such levels of detail is again, what somebody else, no matter man, woman, I don’t care who you are, you know, that those things, feelings of a tear falling, you know, those as a human.
And so it’s being able to speak to that level of detail of in the body, what we’re all experiencing. And so it’s looking at all of the senses that you can use in order to describe. That transformation. And so all stories just come down to being able to identify what’s the moment of transformation pack that full of the emotion, but not just speaking about the emotion, but speaking about it in the levels of detail so that someone can drop themselves into the story that you’re telling. And now they can feel what’s happening in their own body. And that’s storytelling in a nutshell.
George: So I’m going to make this easy for you. Cause you can list this a lot. So Eliya, has on our website, that story about me and my life in exact framework on her website @ wwwheyeliya.com and in our Facebook group, which all of you should be in our relationships beat algorithms group on the top, right? There’s a little tag section. And this episode, when it drops, there’ll be a tag there called storytelling, and there will be a post by Eliya. That gives you a link to this document though, you have the framework and you have the story. Hint, hint, look at the framework, look at the story she wrote about me.
Take two and two together at it, four, and then write your own. Cause what you’re looking for is the principles and the foundations here to help it go. And one little hack I had that helped me a ton Eliya with this, red, as we wrap is what you’re talking about. That moment of transformation, right? Like an example for me is like, I walked up to my office door and I couldn’t get in. Cause there was a foreclosure sign here. It was like, what?Like it’s not like kind of pattern interrupt, right? Or like when I held my son for the first time, whatever, I always struggled to wrap story around that. And then I just realized that every book I have in my life, every single chapter starts with that.
And so like go to your favorite book and like, just read the first paragraph of every one and like, you’ll see this framework and action. You’re like, Oh, and it’s what gets you gripped to read and get you emotionally in. And so I just want everyone to know you’re surrounded by examples of this all the time. And so I want you to observe, look foundationally what they’re doing, and then start applying these principles into your life and understand that this is not a perfect game. Like you’re not going to wake up tomorrow and be like, I’m a master storyteller, copywriters never stop learning storytellers, never stop telling stories.
Artists never stopped creating music. Poets never stopped writing poems, right? Authors never stop writing books. It’s constant evolution getting into the practice of it with the right tools and the right mindset, I think is going to be the biggest secret for everybody. So,Eliya, best place everybody find you. www.heyeliya.com. Thank you for being here. Thank you for sharing all of this. Any closing words, parting words for everybody.
Eliya: Thank you for having me, George. And I just want to say that the act of storytelling is courageous in and of itself. So that is courage. So just the act of going out and saying, I’m just going to tell a single story you already taking the step to be courageous. And the other thing that I’m going to do is I’m going to drop the full training. For my storytelling framework in the group also, so that people can go there and get the complete training. It’ll have the, I don’t have the workbook, but the whole training. It’s like a 30 minute masterclass on this.
George: I don’t know what’s coming. So Eliya wins the game. No better way to end the episode. So guys remember that relationships always beat algorithms. I’m sure I’m going to say this in the outro, but please make sure you subscribe review and let’s say, tell three friends that could use the power of storytelling set on this episode. Eliya, thank you so much for being here. Have a beautiful day. Everybody listening. We’ll see you in the next episode.